So as you can tell, this is not going to be your typical lecture, so I will make that when you get a little bit of sense that you'll be up to something, you know, it's not going to be like a very, um, experience. So my name is Fahm Kalei, uh, and I'm, I'm working with, uh, Gunn-Raw, and we'll, we'll Anybody need, like, somebody's coming in, that's a few. Can you raise your hand? Okay. One, two, three, four people. All right. So we have four. Four. So we have four. Yeah, so if we don't have easel, like, we don't have easel, we run out. It's not, uh, who are the other four? Here, here. All right. So now, everybody's got at least four or three, everybody's got, now go ahead and add the string folders. Everybody in the group should have the same coloring over. And now you have at least five minutes to read the white page. The white page is going to be the topic that you'll be teaching your colleagues. The yellow page, don't read that yet. That yellow page is the, the, the topic that someone else in your group will be talking about. That person's going to be the expert observer. So we'll, we'll spend a few minutes now, but go ahead and read the white page. And be prepared, that's what we're going to be teaching. These are, oh, you have some? Yeah, we have a number. Oh, thank you. Excuse me. Yes. We have an extra folder here. You have an extra folder? Yeah. That's, uh, ooh. So, oh, Denise, you have a, oh, Stacy. Oh, Stacy. Oh, oh, there we go. Yep, that's fine. All right, so now we've got two minutes to read the yellow sheet. The value you're not going to assume. But that's what somebody else can end up assembling. And that means that that yellow sheet, you're going to be the expert observer for that topic. So that's what somebody else got. That's the information that somebody else is going to get. And you'll actually never be able to see the kind of information that they got, what it is that matters. So you have two minutes to actually end up reading that. And then we'll write it. Yeah, and make sure that you're taking one report per group. Judging them, discussing that expert observer. Judging them, discussing who they're going to be. Okay, so now, let the teaching begin. This is like, just basically, red, blue, yellow to your white topic. This should be neutral. Like, don't be intimidated. They were chosen because, like, it's actually neutral. Kind of interesting. All of these topics were from the Library of Congress. Because they were from the state, so it was a fun fact. So, enjoy. Like, actually, we're teaching this to your colleagues. And then, remember, that's the expert survey. You have as much time as possible. They're going to just say, see what they teach to get what they learn. Okay, and actually, they're going to go right from that. So, remember to pick a reporter to then end up going back to, like, that piece, expert survey. So, go ahead. You have 20 minutes. Pick two things. You have two things to end up doing right now. Picking the reporter and picking who goes first. And then, you guys only have two. Okay. All right. That's a lot more revised. And that is actually one of the things that we think is really important. So that is the promise. You won't feel pressure, and I've been this to the Global Leadership Academy, that they have not made it able to do this. You can see the tension, right, like after. I mean, they really didn't want you to know that that's a barrier that you might have to meet. You're thinking about the barriers. And once you get started, you actually, the lesson becomes a start. You're thinking about barriers. And I want you to know that that is what I saw when you guys came in, and I told you, you're going to be teaching people, that body language was not a relaxed body language. But we'll get you down. Go ahead and we'll practice sitting, like you're basically sitting forward. Everybody's got a different body language compared to when I walked in and I told you we're teaching. That is an effective translation of what it is to be sitting forward. That's one of the most important things that one actually never achieved in teaching. So now I'll just ask, actually, this group right here, so you only had two, but you had a little bit of time in the process. So tell me about what it was like to actually be a expert server. And so I would say that I was watching you teach, and I was thinking that that would be too much. I had like four of our students who are senior. Yes. We both speak American English, right? He doesn't speak English at all. I think they were both enthusiastic as I did not speak English until I actually discovered this. And so I was kind of thinking, how would I do it in particular? I probably wouldn't. That's what I was thinking. Whether it was good or not, I didn't know. They recognized us. Did you notice that you actually, what was written in the page, was it in a particular order, was it receptive to that exact sense of order? Oh yeah, I actually never teach English in America. Right, so we, that's a key component that I would say is really important, that teaching takes a material, gets processed, and then exchanged. You need that processing to happen internally. You basically, you have your own biases. There probably wouldn't have been a sense of that. I mean, we actually don't think that you're teaching a theory. You have changed the order around a lot in your mind. A lot. Because when we communicate, we don't communicate how we write. So that's one thing to actually keep in mind. So I hope this will benefit you, sir. That sort of order. I think one of us did change the order. who's got hands and expressions, and it's like a story that they've both got above the chain, and they're all kind of like invisible. Yes, yes. Yeah. And that's a great, that is a good formulation of the lessons that gestures have given. Gestures have been engaging with a lot of body language. Like there's a lot of body language that actors have gone through. Gestures, we've heard it from two groups, that basically have happened a lot in the community. And that's almost expected, that is a relaxed environment. Do more freely with your body, if it's, that the environment is safe. Very formal environment, you get a basic, that's how we just gonna be like, very still, controlled, right? It's not relaxed. Pay attention to that. I mean like, we are experts. We have decades of basically, controlling your body language, and adapting to the situation. Teaching is exactly the exact same thing. Like you have to be, you have to adapt. Pay attention to body language. Make sure that you're creating a safe environment with your body language. Anything else? I have a quick question. As you were presenting, particularly in the washroom, it's time for third and fourth. Were you influenced by the person who was before you, and how they all, how they initially presented today? Or, did I notice that you guys stopped at tables? No, stop. Oh, you stopped at tables. Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, this group? I think that's a good question for this group. Yeah, I think we all followed a similar method because most of them were a question. And so, we all started with a personal tie to it we had. Or, you know, oh, this is something I was interested in, and I didn't quite know to kind of build interest, and kind of open it up. And most of us went in a very conversational way as opposed to a list of facts. So, that aspect of saying that you introduced as a personal opponent, that wasn't engaged, right? So, you introduced a lot of things that would capture people's engagement. We spent a lot of energy doing that, right? Everyone's like basically saying that we're not gonna capture people's engagement. It's gonna sound the most personal. People's like, you're the bottom. You actually ended up having a lot of techniques to the broader interest of the question, the mention of the question aspect. Who started off by asking the question? What do you think, that's, usually that's exactly what happens. What do you think that is? It's engagement. It is really uncomfortable, really uncomfortable to ask a question and wait, right? Really uncomfortable. You're demanding attention. And not only that, like you're demanding attention when you ask a question, then you become an ally when you're jumping in, right? You don't play it. You don't realize you're doing it, but that is exactly like a common technique that you did. Automatically, automatically allowed a lot of the teaching to end up capturing people's engagement and to make them feel good. That's part of it. You control the environment in a very self-conscious way. That you basically ask a question, people will kind of end up saying, okay, I'm gonna talk to you again, and then you can leave that attention. You become an ally. So just be aware that that's actually, you're doing a lot of techniques already automatically. And you're doing it because you value the engagement. Sometimes I do this exercise, I may tell certain tables that they're gonna have a test. What do you think happens in that setting? Exactly. You're getting more attention. That group requests the person who's basically has to learn it, they request a page, right? They request a page. And that's because they actually have, it's a more efficient way of transferring information about being what you are, right? It's a lot more. Who did that here? Nobody. Nobody. What you actually end up doing is that you basically are starting to say that engagement is more important than the technical transfer of information. A lot less, you would have gotten all that information if I just sat around. Nobody does that. It's a little tough. You don't feel like, you know, you've got the second party app, you've got a bunch of colleagues. Yeah. It's that engagement. It's okay, you've created an environment, right? But that is not efficient. Yeah. Like you've missed out some of the stuff. Like that's process information. When you were at the expert observers, just to show a hand, when you were the expert observer, did you notice things that were missed, that were basically not included in the other person's presentation? So can I say something? You will have. One of the things is like, you may not have, some will have included everything. And that's actually because they had short, they had short length presentations. Like the topic was actually short. Some people had much longer ones, 300 pages or whatever, of basically missing some information that you haven't processed it in a good form. Right, so that's a, you will notice those biases the longer the article length is. So I think that's actually an important thing to turn back into your mind. That you have, the more you teach, or the greater the quantity, the more your bias is based on that. So we do this a lot. We basically add extra information to get it in each minute. And we subtract information. There were some groups that were assigned a little bit longer topics. So you would be pressed for time. Who was pressed for time? Yeah. So that's very good. I don't know if it worked. It worked. In this group, that was pressed for time, how do you distribute who went first? So they're going in order of the presentation. I moved last, and I had a little longer. Perfect, right? That is a great example. Like, you know, that is a hidden component. That is truly one of the ways that we actually got past it. Let's present, let's have a logical order of percent. Because if it were demonical, that person would be the longest article. The longest article would be the one first. And you would assign seven minutes instead of five minutes, right? You'd want to determine that the bar would be evenly. If you actually end up paying attention, and these are hidden rules that are based on that bar planning rule. If you have no select direction, you divide against evenly. That's a hidden rule, right? Like, without any, it's like that's the most comfortable way to just keep it unsaid. And you're going to end up dividing things evenly, when that actually wasn't necessary in the most logical way. You probably should have had the person who had the short, half paragraph topic presented for two minutes, right? And the person who had that report, but that means there's one that's all the way in place in the papers. And that is, that person probably needed seven minutes, right? So just be aware, these are hidden rules that are based on that. And it's really critical to basically end up being aware. It's like, what am I missing by not paying attention to it? Because that's one thing to be aware of. I'll say it again, what is it that frequently is in the way of cases that have been done that are not optimistic? So you have to work optimistically. There's a lot of benefits that are in there. The other aspect, who went first? Can anybody sort of this table, like, yeah, we're over here. What number were you? One. So it's not that you think that's going to be wise. Maybe they're older. Frequently. And it's not being a... It goes to a non-targeted level. You know what I'm saying? So that is the truth. There's no notice. It's like, I have to sort of look at it and take a look at it. Well, you're supposed to... You have a number that's really big. Really big. And that's the ratio to the number. It's not the exact number. It's not the same color number. It's the quantity. And if I make the number very prominent, people go first, or number one. Hidden fool. These are hidden fools. Like, that basically ends up happening all the time, right? And it's like, because it's uncomfortable. And that's something that they experience decade after decade, like, starting in grade school. And they'll say, basically, number one, number two, first. There's a assumption that it's real. It's not going to be 100%. The bigger a number is, the more likely they're actually going to pay attention to that number. And truly, it's real. And all of these things, I do all kinds of different things. I took it kind of easy on you guys. It was like, this is straightforward. Because I didn't know you were going to do something like this. You know, I had a lot of people that I started learning about on dates. And then you put it together. And that's when you start seeing the change in behavior. And just be aware that that change in behavior, like when I put in an expectation of you and me going to material, you become that grad student that really wants to, and you're already engaged, right? And if you come in and you've spent a lot of time worrying about an engagement, you're pissed. Because that took away 20 minutes of waiting. It's nonsense. When you really want to estimate the information, that happens. You know, that really does actually happen. Then you really want to look at that page and say, let me read it. Because then you get the most information out of it. So just be aware that there's always a balance. Engagement and content. And you have questions that you're trying to figure out. I'm on your list. It's been a mess that I bought. The other question that I had said, is that when you used to order? What do you think, and taking it back, what do you think you're doing when you used to order? Yeah, no, I didn't, yeah. Yes. And what do you suppose is the topic? The more I'm going down this, the more the more I'm saying. So there are some topics. So what would you say that some topics are more conducive, from what we've heard, to visual aids compared to others? There's some historical topics that I would put in there. Like, who is someone close to you? Boring. Yeah, really, really boring. And that's not a visual aid. So a lot of the things that you have to pay attention to is that sometimes, you basically end up doing, even in your microcosm, you end up doing what happened right before. You sometimes add a topic. It's got the cracking and the knuckles. Did you use the board? No. Were you first? You were second. Did the person who went before you use the board? Somebody else here, did you use the board? Yeah. Anybody else with a knuckle? Did you use the board? Yeah. So that is the common, I would say, that topic, very conducive, to basically end up using the board. Very conducive. But you heard here that if you go first, that could, sometimes, actually, you're gonna put that first. But a lot of times, whether you use the board, it's gonna be dependent whether you're here or you're just here, right? So that is a barrier, that that topic almost resonates with the board, because it's so good with visuals, when you're trying to explain it. But the physical barrier is the one reason why you move backwards. Or what happened before you. If the person who went before you didn't use it, you're less likely. It's just probability, right? It doesn't mean it's not actually missing. It's just probability. But be aware that there is an optimal way of doing things, of actually matching a topic to a presentation. And that sometimes you're biased and you basically think it's part of what happened before. So that's, like, one of the things to always keep in our attentions. Like, infrequently, that momentum of, like, what happened, how it was done before me, is a huge barrier for you doing it differently. And that is, and I'll give you one other example, I'll keep you in the front of your mind, because the learners now are different than learners when we were in the universities. Like, really, that they have different demands. They have different access to information. The informational pamphlet is not the most important thing. It was when I was, like, actually in the universities. Like, I wanted that information. That's not, it's not a scholarship. So that's another thing to actually look at. Anything else? Oh, yeah. Any shocking revelations related to, like, particularly those people who had longer topics when we were the expert observers, that was, like, actually very different to me than 100%. Anybody had that experience? For everybody, it was pretty much, like, in the same way. And, you know, we're all similar groups. We're all actually similar. Like, we're all, because we have, we have, we were more homogeneous, like, than an average group of people. So, and I think that is just... No, actually, my colleague, Karina, actually, first time she presented about solar system on Google, she jumped, like, no, she, like, very, she just tried to make, she went with that one very nicely. She got that, she wrote on the solar system. Yeah, yeah. Her memory was terrific. But I think, see, this kind of thing, she prepared it nicely, you know. She brought all the plans and all that. Yeah. That wasn't included, right? That wasn't included in the paper. They were mentioned on the paper, and I was like, I'm not going to remember all the names. That's why I didn't study history. It's fine. So, I was here. But you started, you started off with that, right? Like, that wasn't how it was necessarily started, or anything. That wasn't engaged in writing, or saying, like, in my mind. It's kind of like the end of the seventh stage. And I think that needs to probably be done in a little bit different way, right? Listen, see, what I mean to say, see, she did very, really well with the picture first. Yeah, yeah. So, the audience got what she was talking about. Yes. So, then, we later, we discussed that we were sending part of it. Yes. I like the base. She put a diagram first. Yeah. People get most of it. They can have some speculation what she's going to talk about. Exactly. No, I mean, there's a frame. I mean, you mentioned how you get your audience's prepared for what you're about to teach them. And then, the other thing that what we did, I mean, like, so, I want you to actually, I put it on the physics grade exercise, and I want you to remember this, it's inductive learning, that we basically took one experience, and we extracted a lot of generalizable lessons. That is not necessarily how we end up teaching a lot. This is a very engaging method of teaching. A lot of the times, we go in there, and we teach you about everything, all the theory, and we say, practice it in this one little manner, however, I always said. You warn them, because you basically end up having such a huge package. And then, you're asking them to basically narrow down, and saying, like, which lesson that I just learned should I actually move upon? This is a really engaging, because it starts out here, we're gathering a set of people. And that means that you're going to end up having, you already start off, like, say, we're going to capture your attention, and then, we're going to learn a lot of stuff that's not only from the set of stuff that you're going to actually have to engage in. And that's a good way of asking them, if somebody asks you a question, they have identified an engagement point. Know that. Like, truly, go through it, and like, go to random tangents that they feel like this direction of engaging in, that they should know, because you've captured everything. You will be more than able to do this. Really, it's really hard. Answer the question, and then, it pushes you more. Until you change, you start noticing the change in the body. Pay attention to body language. So, table here, can you tell me about body language? What was the reporter here? Like, what did he notice? Is it about body language? Yeah. I don't think we talked about that, necessarily. Yeah, I think we talked more about that we had some topics that were very technical, and those were the ones that we kind of gravitated towards the more analytical percent on the board, and then, we had some topics that were esoteric, like the toothbrush, or ice crystals being the same, things like that. So, those folks did it, like, let me tell you a story, and it was more of a laugh presentation. And it's a lot of things like, who stood up at the front? So a lot of times, that's actually another thing that is a body language aspect of Lake Space is saying, like, I have the floor. You know, basically, I have the floor. So that is actually another aspect of basically, you will see this predominantly for, like, the dual-spotting process. They will stand up a lot more to actually end up projected. So it is, it's like, we all kind of are doing this. And it's saying, like, it's a power play, in a way, saying, you know, this. There is another, there is another component of, like, standing up that says, like, basically, we kind of focus our attention. We basically want to say, like, we're erected. As opposed to being, we move a little bit more, we kind of have a little bit more of a conversation, a little bit more effort. Here, you actually end up being pointed with the water. Or you actually end up, like, actually, having support forms. So that's another thing that you actually want to take. So that is how you can do interfaces and what support forms. It's not advancing. It will stop. All right. All right. So the other thing, like, basically, these were, like, those are the lessons that we're going to review. That's, like, the review slide. Could you ask the person, the AD, if they could come in? AD? Yes, it's AD. All right. So that is, basically, we covered a lot of the lessons that we're going to base on the project. So it is, it's an important thing to actually keep in mind that we land on a history of how various external influences influence you in a hidden way that you actually don't even realize. That the other components that you're learning about is one of the things that requires a lot to learn about. It requires how you end up engaging. It requires, like, sometimes limiting the information that you actually have to send in. And then the other thing that actually came up in this table, when I asked you to present what you had in your emails, both had supplemental information. So one person, two people. So you have two people out of, like, probably, like, 40, 50 people who actually end up doing it. That is a limitation that our brain is facing now. I didn't say present the information that was, like, in the domain paragraph. I said present what's information in the yellow or in the black and white page. We limited, we limited the information that we're basically going to present. Once it's alive, the people who had a lot more time go there because they can find it. And then in my case, I mean, it's a little bit, it just got stuck. You're either going to basically have a little bit more time to explore, like, the curiosity aspect. And that actually may be even more interesting, you know, even a more interesting point to end up sharing with the audience. So I'm glad, like, this doesn't used to happen. We've got to at least stand out in this. That is a rare occurrence that you basically end up going beyond what you need to cover when you have any other problem. And that happens all the time. That it is, like, we frequently need to expand so much. Yes. We frequently end up having to expand what we actually need to find and what we're going to teach. That we have a narrow view, frequently based on what we've seen before. But we covered this. We covered a lot of these topics. And the rules are really important. Yes. Yeah, please, please. So it is, like, I agree with you. This is actually one of the aspects you can get from this one exercise of watching other people teach that then it can actually, you know, hopefully take you back, as you say, to where you're going, as you're actually going to learn and engage students. And remember, you're not going to get it right every single time. You may have misjudged what that audience needed. It's okay. It's a process. You know, like, it really is, like, you imparted some information and may say, you know, next time I have this group of students, this is how I'm going to help you make a difference. How generalizable are the techniques that you use for educating the patients and educating the students, like assessing knowledge before any of the things that you teach about? A lot, like, a lot of it is basically trying to say, how savvy is this patient? We tone that aspect of saying, how savvy is this patient about their illness? The information, the way that I speak about, like, teaching about their illness is going to be very much dependent on what you perceive. Sometimes they surprise you, and then you move up a level or you go down a level, right? So that happens, and we do this, like, you know, naturally. So, like, be aware that that's actually what you're doing. Basically, you're changing the information, the same topic, from expert to novice, right? So you actually end up saying that that is how you're going to communicate. And you're going to lead people's reaction. If you're calm, they will feel calm. If you're worried, they will feel that worry. So you will see medical students come off and, like, be really tense because that's how they feel. The patient's going to feel really tense. And sometimes something that's, like, the patient, like, really gets very nervous is something that medical students actually end up saying, and that's because they're very nervous. And I think that that's actually a good way of actually about seeing that that is what happens here. When you start actually about teaching, you feel calm, you feel actually relaxed. The audience is actually also going to be relaxed, and that goes for the patient as well. Any other questions? Yes? So you mentioned something about a barrier, not reach out like this. How do you get over it? Sometimes your audience will engage what you're talking about, but sometimes they get, like, they will have the ability that they have such... How do you, I mean, any exercise, how do you get over it? Because that's going to make you uncomfortable. I'm glad you mentioned this because one of the things that I did not get to see for years of teaching, right, and it goes a little bit into, like, a lot of the students will feel nervous because they don't have control over the message. There are kind of, there's a lot of questions about, am I saying it right? Am I right in this? That is the teacher, the teacher will give you an answer. So the lesson is honest. So I would say if you don't listen, saying that this is a barrier, it's okay. You know what I'm saying? Something like that. I have, like, I'm wearing a mask. I'm sorry, but this is, like, you know, post-COVID. You're going to make it a little bit... But you basically use that barrier. But you lessen it. Take comfort and take confidence in your message, right, that you are the expert. You have the information that the rest of us don't have, and that is the most important aspect. The barriers are modifiable compared to what you're doing. So a lot of it is how do you do it? That is, really, when you switch it around and you have to present the yellow page instead of the white page, you really become dumb, right? So that is exactly why I asked some of the students to end up doing the mask, that instead of, like, finally presenting the two-minute, the relevant two minutes, you now have to present it. And there's an expert, and you know there's an expert in the audience who knows a lot more. What do you guys think happens in that case? What would be a common response to that? You engage the expert a lot more, right? Who engages the expert in this exercise? The expert observer? Nobody, right? Nobody, but she would be expert. But that would happen again. So be mindful that that is a common technique that you mentioned about doing. So you know that there's an expert. Don't pretend that you ran out of that. Nobody worked on that. You engage them. Is it a point? It starts with, like, having the information from the audience. That's right. But that, by the way, makes you, as a speaker, uncomfortable. So know that we do a lot of things for our comfort, but there's a lot of things that, basically, I'm not avoiding because it feels uncomfortable. And that is what you came in and you expressed to me with your faces. This is actually kind of uncomfortable. And hopefully, that says it's actually not that bad. Really, it's not that bad to actually do this. You learn. And sometimes the way that I figure when I'm thinking about discomfort is saying, I'm learning. Discomfort means growth. And that is actually one of the things that you're going to say. Like, I don't remember when it turned out that I was feeling the way I was growing up. But with a lot of the piece that grew up that I just did on Tuesday, I know it's really important. They were taught that they had to engage because they had to, basically, confirm that there were, like, methods to use in the barriers that they faced. They were unsure of the message because it wasn't like the words were actually important. Like, some of the words are very technical. They have to actually conduct themselves. You teach differently depending on the problem. The lesson is exactly the same. But your problem is going to be very different for different reasons. Yeah. I don't have a slide. One thing that I would like to do, here's two things. One, I put evaluations on your tables. Please fill them out. Very important, very helpful. Otherwise, we'll lock the door for you. Next, I think we'd like to use this opportunity to sort of engage you guys and sort of see what are some of the challenges you have, you've experienced, and see if there are people in the room who may be able to offer some suggestions how to deal with these potential challenges. And even better, if you could adapt some of the things you learned here today to sort of overcome the challenges that you may have faced in the classroom or in the clinics or dealing with patients or whatever scenario that you've had so far with regards to teaching and educating in general. I know that, but I see it in their face and think, you know, I'm, I don't know, I find, I try and break a lot of the patients into different reasons to show, but sometimes I just, I know what you're using them with. It's not, I don't use material problem or a way of reading things to me. I just keep on looking at the patient for a little bit today and later, I don't vote over it. Did everybody hear that? Everybody have any thoughts? I guess if you keep it now, it was sort of a. What about Mr. Lee? Thank you. I was just saying that sometimes I'm given spots, right, teaching a universal set where I'm given material and there's my spot and I'm told this is a vector and I don't think that would be a good format to teach that material in. And I'm teaching a general, I think that maybe you want to get what's short bits of information instead like a big long arrow and that, blah. And I think I lose them. I don't think it's me or them. I just think we're in the wrong environment. And I don't think that we're doing such a good job. I thought of that experience as if you can think. The learners are different. It's the level of texture students prefer was the texture that they wanted to learn to speak. The other, although the students feel they are in the same environment, if they prefer the same thing at home, that depends on the speaker. I mean, it all speaks to the engagement, right? Being able to sort of grasp their intention, to keep them engaged. Again, it's a constant evolution with attention spans and it's becoming more innovative in our ability to keep students engaged. And I struggle with that too. You're giving a lecture and they have laptops and they're looking at something and you know they're not paying any attention to what it is that you're saying. I mean, I'll throw a question and try to keep them engaged to see if they'll participate. But some will do, some won't. I don't have a perfect answer, except for saying it's all about trying to figure out creative ways to keep them sort of engaged. Yeah, and this is not necessarily a generalizable solution to that per se. I teach more on the clinical side, to residents, fellows, and students than in a lecture setting. But I had the opportunity to give a couple of lectures like year after year to the same kind of audience, like first year interns, things like that. And I've noticed when it is a longer lecture, I see people falling asleep. I see people looking at their phones. I see people losing interest very quickly. And when I've now transitioned the same sort of presentation to quick cases, where they're forced to think about it and I give them opportunities to answer, and then I give the same information, just like case number one is about, you know, whatever we pay, and then we talk about referrals and that, that seems to grasp their attention and keep it better. And it's the quick things, like TikTok animation, right? Each case is a unique, quick thing, and then we move on to the next thing. I'm a student at Case Western, Missouri University, and our university takes a lot of pride in changing curriculum, and it's very case-based learning. There are large lectures, but they're not heavily attended, including by me, because I can't pay attention for that long. I don't get that much from them. But on every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, we have these longitudinal small groups that work through multiple cases that they read on Monday. They go back, study themselves, and then present to each other on Wednesday and Friday, and I've had the opportunity to be a facilitator for these, so I keep them within bounds. But they're doing all the studying, they're doing all of the teaching, and our school in general has found that to be very helpful. And even if you're given that hour-long slot to get into the lecture, you can still maybe play with that time and break them into small groups, have them teach each other what they know, have them talk about how to get that kind of network. Helpful? Any other scenarios or situations? I wonder if anyone has cameras on. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, there's so many different things on the screen and kind of on the side of the lecture. Does anybody have any additional thoughts on the whole idea of this sort of vibrating and zoom and cameras off and you can't see the faces? We started with saying, at the beginning, if you have a camera, turn the camera on. Not all of our point computers. Turn your camera on. Because I know you've been at that case conference. Well, I'm listening. And you know there needs to be something else. So just turn them on. And you just have people that are engaged. Explain. If you're not prepared for everything of the case, like we have four topics, but all of us in the collegium would not share it. So, scenario, you cannot be prepared, only you can prepare yourself. How exclusive you both engaged us, you just led us to work ourselves so that we learn, class learning from each other. You gave us initial clues, probably this exact setup what we have to replicate in our real sense. Students from different backgrounds like four of us and different levels of understanding. She's good at biochemistry, she's good at medicine. So probably this thing, you have to be extremely optimistic about your delivery. Content, what they brag and push you, what all you know. But at the second and third level, that slowly people are inducting us and getting our opinions. You're hearing that it's a type of learning process. I learned from the colleagues in class. This is something, as you mentioned in the first slide, an ever-learning process. Open your eyes and react. Sometimes a student may teach you how to teach them better. and go back and forth. And this is the trajectory you're making, ultimately. You had a comment, a question? Yeah, well, I think this maybe starts to get to the heart of the challenge we're facing in our education right now, and it's right there on screen. Which is the difference between information and reason. Historically, I'm not sure as to where the data was made. Now, I'm being, I mean, I've greatly transitioned away from that, because I realized that I could be dealing with, well, back then it was sketching, now it's something else. Yeah, exactly, Steve. I didn't know what the blue umbrella and the red cap was. But, you know, so I actually now, I'm very lucky in what I get to teach, but I now say, look, I know you all have written up all these facts, I'm here to talk to you about how to use them. You had a question? No, I just wanted to pose a question, because we have a good mix of people here, and is it enough just to learn by case-based learning? I'm from a generation where textbooks and universities are like, now they say, I find it so difficult, just four points, we think my students and my fellows exactly know what to answer for that particular case summary, but where is the reasoning and rationality behind it is what I see. It's missing in grasp. day to go back home and prepare a 15-minute presentation for me. Do they want to do that at first? So it is a part of the assignments. They don't have to do it. And then whatever they tell me in those 15 minutes, if it hits all of the highlights of what they need to do for their ADI course, because that's what my concentration model for them, that's great. Whatever they do, I will add to that. Because I wasn't doing this last year, and I felt like it was part of this rut where they would go see the patient, they would come back, and they would tell me the plan, just like they had read in my last book. And then that was it. But I think giving them this extra challenge that they need to do, I think it's a great challenge. to have a room, and they can just give me the room and also a space to talk about what they've seen. And I think you had a comment, didn't you? I was just gonna say, it's very common from the university history that things are based on problem-based learning 20 years ago, and it really depends on how it's done, and it really has to be almost in an all-in or all-out sort of thing. That's how you avoid what you're talking about, is they don't just learn the four points, they sit there and teach each other for an entire week over one case. I was just gonna say, the cases are limited in that we only see so many cases and so many topics, and in the real world, we see so many various things. I'm one thing I always try to highlight, for example, when we work with our fellows, is I don't just want the right answer. I want you to explain why every single answer is incorrect instead of the right answer, and give me all the reasoning, and that forces you to know more. Any more questions or thoughts, or I know we're coming up on to the hour, and we're gonna make it across to lunch, maybe we can get some more questions. Anything else? Thank you so very much. Please fill out the evaluation before you go. for the Endo Society and our planning. Thank you again for your engaging interaction and conversations, and enjoy the rest of your day. All right, we're out.

Fahm Kaili

Gunnarau

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